Preexistence of Jesus

05/2006

rayer of Jesus

I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will

YOUR QUESTION (No. 54)

I've been thinking about a statement Jesus made to the Jews in John 8:58. "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was I AM." Does he mean his words exist before Abraham or Himself? I know he ascended to heaven and had seen Abraham, but did he actually existed in heaven before Abraham? What are your thoughts on this?

My Answer

This question deals with perhaps the single most confused and misunderstood revelation of the Truth by our Lord Jesus. To get at the Truth, we must first divest our minds of accepted Christian theology and look to Jesus for our information. It will help to overcome confusion if we first acknowledge these things:

1. The Logos (Greek, word) is God revealed to man through the medium of words in the utterances of Jesus of Nazareth in the gospels. It is far more than a set of ideas expressed by words, but is the Living Presence of the Father, by and through whom He mediates his own Eternal Life to humans. The Logos is Spirit and Life, as God is Spirit and Life. This means life spiritual and eternal, not life carnal and temporal.

John 6
⁶³ The spirit is that which makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words which I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
John 14
¹⁰ Do you not believe that I am in the father and the father is in me? The words which I told you I did not speak from myself, but the father abiding in me does his works.
²³ If anyone agape-loves me, he will give heed to my word, and my father will agape-love him, and we will come to him, and will make our dwelling place with him.
John 5
²⁴ Truly truly I say to you that the one hearing my word and believing the one having sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but is moved out of death into life.

2. The Logos (Word) is eternal with God, transcending all of creation as a personal, divine presence. In Him is Light (Truth) and Life (Eternal).

John 1
¹ In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. ² This one was in the beginning with God. ³ All came into being through him, and apart from him came into being not one thing which has come into being. ⁴ In him was life, and the life was the light of men. ⁵ And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not seize it. 3. When the Logos (Word) is heard and believed by a human being, it enters into the honest and good heart and springs up as Eternal Life. It acts as the sperm (seed) of God. This is to be begotten of the Spirit, from above.

Luke 8
¹¹ Now this is the parable. The seed is the word of God.
¹⁵ But that in the good land, these are those in the good and sound heart who having heard the word hold fast and bear fruit in patience.

3. It is necessary that one be begotten from above, of the Spirit, to enter into or see the kingdom of God.

John 3
³ Jesus answered and said to him: Truly truly I say to you, if someone not be begotten from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God. ⁴ Nicodemus says to him: How is a man able to be begotten when he is old? Is he able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be begotten? ⁵ Jesus answered: Truly truly I say to you, if someone not be begotten out of water and spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. ⁶ That which is begotten out of flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten out of the spirit is spirit. ⁷ Do not marvel that I said to you, You must all be begotten from above. ⁸ The wind blows where it wishes, and you do not know whence it comes and where it goes, in this manner is everyone who has been begotten out of the spirit.

4. Jesus of Nazareth was a natural born man of exceptional spirituality. He was not virgin born nor was he conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. The Nativity narratives in the first two chapters of both Matthew and Luke constitute Christian myths tacked onto those documents by false teachers at a very early time. Our earliest complete copies of the gospels date from the middle of the Fourth Century, so there was ample opportunity to do this. Christians are none the wiser.

5. According to the Logos (Word) and by his own utterance, Jesus acknowledged that he had been begotten from above. The statements of John 3:3 & 5 expresses a principle of universal application to human beings, of whom Jesus was one. I repeat them here, with the stipulation that begotten of water means begotten of the flesh, or natural begotten:

6. Jesus experienced his begetting from above, of the Spirit, immediately following his baptism by John the Baptist, at which point the Father acknowledged him as his Son.

Mark 1
⁹ And it came to pass in those days that Jesus from Nazareth of Galilee came and was baptized in the Jordan by John. ¹⁰ And straightway coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being rent and the spirit as a dove coming down to him. ¹¹ And a voice came to be out of the heavens: You are my agape-beloved son, in you I am well pleased.

7. The Spirit, and the Life, by which Jesus was begotten from above is the Eternal Word that is inseparable from the Spirit, is the Spirit and is manifested by the words spoken by Jesus thereafter.

John 6
⁶³ The spirit is that which makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words which I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

8. Becoming the first begotten Son of God through the indwelling Logos (Word), Jesus thereafter spoke and taught in the true and valid consciousness that he was the Eternal, preexisting Logos (Word).

John 8
⁴⁰ But now you seek to kill me a man who has spoken to you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
⁵⁸ Jesus said to them: Truly truly I say to you: Before Abraham was, I am.
John 17
⁴ I glorified you upon the land, I completed the work which you gave me that I do; ⁵ and now glorify me, father, beside yourself with the glory which I had beside you before the world was.

Now I am able to respond to your specific questions:

But, does he mean his words exist before Abraham or Himself?

Yes -- before Abraham and before Jesus of Nazareth was born of Mary, but not before himself. It seems a mystery, to us, of how "his words" are the Living, Eternal Word/Spirit/Life/ Son. Yet it may be no more mysterious than the recognition that every individual human person becomes known to others only on the basis of the ideas he/she communicates by means of words.

Did he actually exist in heaven before Abraham?

Yes, as the Eternal Word/Spirit/Life/Son.

. . . and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.

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